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Saturday, August 2, 2014

Another good news story of a Defoo ended

This is email I received recently.  The mailer was glad to have her story posted.  Specifics of identity edited out.  

Hello Edmund,
I posted on your website and sent you an email almost 5 years ago when our son defooed. Like other parents I was looking for answers and hope. Well now my son is back!!

His wife (then girlfriend) who majored in English and philosophy and very smart started pointing out discrepancies in Moly's views and noticed that Moly had a tendency to put women down. Once my son really started hearing what she was hearing they both dropped Stefan.  

She is now pregnant with our first grand child (a boy). We helped them buy a house in the area which they will be moving into in the next couple of weeks.

We don't talk about Stefan or FDR. When we first reconnected our son simply said he needed time and space to figure out who he was. An FDR friend of their's passed through town a couple of months ago and made some comment about an FDR podcast that he liked. Our son's wife made a very disparaging remark about Stefan which shut the friend's mouth very quickly.

Our son and his wife still have some views that are much more extreme than ours but my son is back and he's the person I remembered from before FDR. There were times when I never thought I'd see him again...

Thanks for being a source of knowledge and a forum for parents like me to ask questions and get answers, or at least insights, and know we are not alone

Thursday, July 31, 2014

This post on FDR should have some light shined on it

  This gentleman sent me a private message recently.  Inasmuch as it is also on The FDR liberated public forum,  I suppose it is ok to give it some additional exposure.  One thing.  I did get the email recently, but I don't know the age of the original email the freedomainradio site.  Having said that, nothing much has changed in Moly world, so the sentiment/message is valid no matter when the original email was sent.  

The following mail was sent to

Something has the last months or so bothered me. And that is that what you preach is not always in correlation to what you do. And there are quite a few question marks in your persona, as far as I can see it. And I thought I'd write a mail about it as from what I've seen on the freedomainboard (ironic name) - criticism is often handled with banning. Which is strange for someone that "values truth" and writes on his about page: "If the theories I propose are reasonable, and are supported by evidence, well and good, we have both learned something. If not, listeners such as you are quick to point out errors, which I receive with gratitude. This approach is fundamentally different from most "talk shows." I am a rigorous philosopher, and I will always bow to reason and evidence."

We could take the example of Stewart - a highly intelligent and knowledgeable guy that could have been a valid source on your site. His only "crime" was that he wasn't a fan of your book UPB - and explained in details why that was in this thread:

What was his treatment because of it? A mail from you saying "Please stop posting on the FDR Board... It's neither productive nor enjoyable, and I've had a number of complaints. Sorry it didn't work out.". That's quite interesting for someone that values criticism, don't you think? And there are many more cases. I personally think this google map is very entertaining looking at:,-79.453125&spn=131.156957,320.625&z=1

Virtuous philosopher, that's what you call yourself, huh?

Another problem - or rather, another curiosity of mine is this:

How did a guy almost utterly unable to form solid relationships in his own life become the world's greatest authority for the rest of us? Doesn't that seem, oh, I don't know, odd?
You have said yourself that your childhood was completely loveless. You've also said that your attempts to form female relationships prior to Christina were dismal failures. And from an outsider's view, and listening to many old podcasts of yours - your relationship with Christina doesn't appear to be 100% healthy either.

You could of course say you do have the love of your daughter (which may be true), and that "Izzy" loves "daddles," but I also recall you saying in the past that a baby's apparent love is no more than imprinting, similar to that of baby ducks. So let's scratch Izzy from the love parade because, according to your own words, it's not real love.

The members of the FDR board have a relationship with only a persona - a public representation of Stefan Molyneux that you've created and sells to them, which I also recall that you've admited to be a construction. None of them associate with you as a real man personally, day to day.

You work alone, right? And don't seem to have a circle of friends that you carouse with, no family members you enjoy, no drinking buddies from college, no best friends from high school and so on.

And to be completely honest with you, regardless how it may sound: the closer people come to you - the more they seem to want to distant themselves from you. I obviously do not know if that is the case in real life too - but it does seem to be true on the internet and the freedomainradio. It seems that people really find you inspirational and worth their time in the beginning when they find you, but the more they delve deeper into the personality of Stefan Molyneux, the more they realize that 'everything is not what it seem to be' and move on to other sources of information.

So, dead serious, how does a guy like that get away with writing a book about relationships and the logic of love - with a straight face - without everyone else peeing themselves in laughter?

I just wanted to share that thought and you're welcome to contemplate it as much or little as you want. Consider I've seen enough times how you handle criticism, I can imagine you will see this whole mail as a "hate speech" (I don't hate you, I just don't find you to be the superiour, high moral superhero that you claim to be) that has "nothing to do with you".

I wish I could say that's my only issues with you. But far from it. Another thing is the privacy. As you know, you've consistently not practiced what you've preached when it comes to people's privacy. In many cases (all of them being cases which you did not like the poster), you've revealed their real name rather than just their username - something that doesn't match your description of privacy:

Hypocrisy, once again, I'm afraid. It seems that rules are important but doesn't have to be applied to Stefan Molyneux. In particular if his ego has been hurt. Same goes for swearing, I should add. It's okay for you to lash out every now and again, but when others do it - it's called "wrong" and "unacceptable language". I could go on with more examples, but this mail is long as it is.

Speaking about ego by the way - I've seen the video "Salvation of Philosophy" and it only confirmed what I've suspected for a long time - your narcissism. I know that you don't like to be called a narcissist, in the same way a mythomaniac don't want to be called out on his lies, but I do find this something you really need to look into - if not for your community you claim to be "a very important part of Freedomainradio" (but doesn't seem to be so when it really comes down to it), but for you most importantly. I also found a response to your Salvation of Philosophy quite interesting, and that is this one:

You have said many times that you've been in therapy and that it has helped you a lot - but to be completely honest Stefan, don't you think it would be a good idea of continuing that? It does feel that most of your actions today, and what drives you, still is related in what you've called "a loveless childhood" and that you ironically are guilty of a lot of what you preached about in 
An elegy for Michael Jackson - which is making up and/or covering up emotional scars from your past.

It seems to be that you have become what you hate - an authority. And you have handled it in what you hate the state doing - misusing it and to benefit your own needs. And all of these points of betrayal, hypocrisy, narcissism and dishonesty adds up and the inevitable question pops up - the inevitable question that I'm quite sure many users (that both are part of "free"-domainradio and those that never join at all) ask themselves, and that is: Why bother with Stefan Molyneux?


What do you think? Was I too harsh? Personally, I don't think you can possibly be too harsh when it comes to Stefan Molyneux. Especially as he don't mind himself to point out others "abusive", "corrupt" and "unforgivable" behavior. 

The mail contains thoughts both from myself and users of this forum (which I share). Stefan was someone I from the beginning really liked, but the more I learnt about him - the more I suspect I became. Then after signing up to the boards I only got confirmed what I already had guessed - that it was not really much of a philosophical discussion, but more of a fan base. A place where Stefan can build somewhat of a relationship with his members - and in return get them to donate their money to him. 

I suppose one of my first real warning signals (as I can remember) was a video Stefcunt did that was called 
Despair where he took one man's comment from his latest video and started to analyze him and basically claimed that people didn't love him. Uncalled for, and made me see Stef in a completely new light.

From then on, I found more and more things to be skeptical about. (I found Stef 2009 I believe, but never followed him on a day to day basis, more once a month or so.) And nowadays I can't stand the guy. Like posters have already pointed out on this board - Stefan Molyneux is a walking example of 
Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

This is my first ever post on Liberating Minds. How's that for an introduction post?

Wednesday, July 23, 2014

Peter Joseph discusses Moly's critique of their debate.

Moly must have totally lost a debate with Peter Joseph some months ago. When he loses a debate, he always posts a follow on video on how great he did and what a fool his opponent was.  Moly pretends that he is a learned scholar.  He isn't.  He can never match up with an actual philosophy student, much less someone of the caliber of Joseph.  Which is why he has to do so many of these post debate videos.  He has to re-write history for his followers.  In this video, Joseph shows a really humorous moment.  Moly makes fun of Joseph for making up words.  OOOPs.  The made up words were a well established and well defined political philosophy concept.  You would think Moly could have looked up the term before he ridiculed his opponent.  Of course Moly sees no need for that.  He is doing the video for his sycophant followers.  He knows they will believe him no matter what he says.  It is a total shame that he is right about that.  But in this case, Peter Joseph wouldn't lay down.  Way to go Peter.  

There is quite a bit more.  But to listen to it all you kind of want to be a person who enjoys this kind of topic.  If you do, Joseph does a fine job of fully exposing things.  I particularly liked when Joseph captured Moly''s argument technique.  I believe the term was:  Hyper reductive douche baggery.  His serious point is that when Moly is faced with a serious, thoughtful and intensely complicated argument, he conjures up some simpleton analogy to respond.  I am pretty sure he does this because he is not smart enough to understand what the opponent is saying.

Saturday, March 9, 2013

Great Video by Questeon

For those who have visited here before, you know that I have a great deal of admiration for  It is much more robust and has much more indepth analysis of Moly and FDR.  I particularly like that he properly categorizes the types of visitors to freedomainradio.  And how he properly explains Moly as a teacher (good), philosopher (below average at best), and then as a family counselor (deeply misguided, dangerous and cult like).

Here is the video

I hope you will visit FDR Liberated and the associated forum.  I also hope Questeon will offer up more video content like this.

Wednesday, February 6, 2013

Molyneux as a Narcissist.

Someone sent me a great podcast of the time when Moly is about to make the big move to leave his job in I.T. and go full time into Internet philosophy.  Christina is a big part of FDR's founding and ongoing operations.  She participates in 'Ask a Therapist' call in shows.  Moly says she advises him on matters psychological.  And she does an occasional joint podcasts with Moly.  But in this podcast she is resisting the idea of being a participant in the new 'full time' FDR.  I can't imagine why Moly made this private discussion with his wife public, but he did.  As Christina lays out here position that she simply did not want to participate in FDR, I had to listen in amazement at Moly's reaction.    I am paraphrasing here.  Feel free to listen to the podcast yourself if you want the complete details (FDR 724).

Moly pointed out that Christina's reluctance was a problem for his new full time endeavor. Why?  According to Moly, there would only be two reasons for her none participation.  Either "you do not believe in my efforts, which would undermine my credibility."   OR "You lack the courage to put herself out there  If that were the case, since self esteem marries equal self esteem, that would mean, (remember I am paraphrasing) I married a low self esteem person and my credibility would be shot."   I guess that since he already knew Christina's reasons, there was no reason for her to give her own.  She really should not have to give him any reasons.  IT is her free choice.  Still Moly is browbeating her and ultimately reduces the discussuion to how it makes him look.  Reminds me of the joke about the narcissist in a conversation with a long lost acquaintance.  He says, "I have been talking about myself for an hour.  How about you?  What do you think of me?"   

Anyone in a mature relationship can see the meta story behind this sort of husband/wife vignette.

Monday, February 4, 2013

Molyneux as a Narcissist - Part 2

Ran across a good article on FDR Liberated.  It notes the remarkable consistency of Molyneux's writings, podcasts, call in counseling sessions with 'splitting.'  Splitting is a hallmark diagnostic indication of Nacrissistic Personality Disorder.  FDR Liberated is a much better site than this one for understanding the nature of FDR and Stefan Molyneux. 

As a reminder to my dear readers, I used to listen to and enjoy Moly's podcasts.  As I read the FDR Liberated article I remembered when I first started to lose interest.  It was when he offered up sympathy for the 9/11 truthers (i.e. the belief that the U.S. government knew about the 9/11 attacks in advance and let them happen).  He said something like.  "I wouldn't put anything past a government as corrupt as this."  I remember thinking, 'OK. This guy is a little off his nut.'  As I read the article at FDR Liberated, I realized this was Molyneux doing a splitting thing.  There was no room for a inefficient, badly run, over reaching government.  It had to be totally corrupt. All bad.  No possibility of any redeeming characteristics.  So corrupt that it would murder thousands of its own citizens as a matter of course. 

Anyway, do please visit FDR Liberated if you care to get further thinking on the subject. 

Friday, February 1, 2013

Family relationships are more than just another adult relationship

Without a doubt the most asinine comments I get involve the observation that   “Molyneux isn't against the family.  He is only about voluntarily ending unhealthy relationships.” 
I have a question for those commenter's and anyone else who thinks that is “all Moly is saying”.  If the only thing Moly puts forth is this simpleton axiom, then why are you listening to him on anything related to the family? 

I suspect that the answer is because that is NOT all he believes.  Like all con men, he starts with an obvious truth and then corrupts it.  He drones on and on, as if he had a clue, as to what a healthy parent child relationship is about.  In the course of his never ending pod-casts  he offers one seemingly obvious but totally incorrect message.  Moly and his wife try to get you to believe that your relationships with your parents are no different than any other “adult” relationship in your life.  He claims that you should have the same standard with your parents as other relationships.  As reasonable as that sounds at first, if you take any time to consider it, you have to find that it is a truly silly construct.   

A healthy relationship with your parents is nothing like other adult relationships.  It shouldn't be.  A healthy relationship with your parents involves lots of things that would never exist anywhere else in your life.  If you are doing well and you are happy, your parents are happy right along with you.  No one else in your life cares about you in that way.  If you are screwing up, your parents will likely speak up.  If you have a brain, you will at least give their opinion some consideration.  If you reject their advice, they will take it in stride and wish you well.  In what other relationship in your life, can you just show up at their home and be welcomed in no matter what.  Your parents are planning on how they can give you their estate when they die.  Is there any other ‘adult relationship’ you have that involves estate planning?   Or how about simple table manners.  Your parents provided you with food, security, shelter and love for the first 20 years or so of your life.  They endured all your bad behavior and peccadilloes and still supported you and loved you.  As a matter of morality and ethics, you should return the favor and forgive them their transgressions.  Anyone can come up with countless additional examples of why the healthy family relationship is, and should be, fundamentally different from 'other adult relationships.'  
If you think differently, feel free to get a grip.   

Tuesday, December 11, 2012

Justice is served

Justice is served when those who willfully hurt others are punished for their acts.  When I started this blog, parents routinely contacted me looking for help.  It has been months since that has happened.  And where before, it was hard to find an example of a defoo victim returning, parents are now telling me their children are re-connecting.  I think this worm has turned.  I think Moly is now completely cowed by bad publicity over the defoo thing.  I also think because of that, very few now take him even a little bit seriously as a source for libertarian thought anymore.  His under educated wife is now officially and properly identified by her profession’s licensing body as having engaged in “professional misconduct” related to her unethical counseling during a freedomainradio call-in show.  A web search on Christina Papadopoulos (or Christina Molyneux) would turn up a therapist who is weak willed, naive  over matched, and a devoted follower of her cult leader husband.  It will show that she is guilty of professional misconduct.  It will show that she has counseled people she did not know via an internet call-in show sponsored by her husband. And that she advised those people to cruelly break with their families with no warning and no opportunity for communications or counseling.  I have to think that the Molyneux family business is suffering.  In short:  Justice is being served.  

So what now?  After justice is served, redemption often follows.  If Moly publicly and convincingly disavows his idiotic, simpleton and destructive family views, that would be a good start.  If he successfully seeks out each and every one of his defoo followers; then gets each and every one to return home with a true conviction in their hearts to find reconciliation with their parents and loved ones, then I will declare victory and take this site down.  

I won't hold my breath on this.  Still.  It has to be burdensome to Moly's mental health to know that he has been engaging in such morally reprehensible and damaging behavior for so long.  Doing the right thing could be a good thing for his general mental healthI bet redemption would lift a large burden from his heart.  A burden that he doesn't even know exists.  Until then, he can work on getting used to the new normal.    

Saturday, November 3, 2012

Christina Papadopoulos - Guilty of Misconduct

Well this has been a long time coming.  The College of Psychologists of Ontario has finally faced the obvious truth that Christina Papadopoulos guilty of professional misconduct.  Here is the article from the Toronto Globe and Mail.   
Some excerpts and my thoughts (in bold):
Excerpt:  In another podcast, the couple discussed a listener who wrote a letter describing how he cut ties with his family and rerouted his mother’s daily e-mailed pleas titled “We love you” into his junk mail folder. “She’s trying to push your buttons. She’s trying to appeal to your guilt,” Ms. Papadopoulos said. “The best thing to do under those circumstances is just not to engage. …The moment you respond back, she knows she’s got you.”            -  Wow.  That is some serious professional therapist advice.  The callers mother is reaching out to offer her love and Christina acts like a teenager advising her BFF over how to handle her latest rival.  "That will teach her to make fun of your outfit.  Just ignore her.  If you call her out, she will get the upper hand. "  

At Tuesday’s hearing, Mr. Osborne said, the perception of Ms. Papadopoulos’s objectivity was compromised because her husband’s website solicits donations.   -  Ya Think?  
Ms. Papadopoulos didn't speak at the hearing, except to enter her plea. In the statement of facts, she said “she was, with the benefit of hindsight, naive about the use and possible misuse of information distributed via the Internet.”  
                       -  Isn't that special.  Poor me.  I'm naive:  The woman was actively presenting herself as a licensed therapist and  trying to get people to break with their families in a most horribly cruel way. And she succeeded.  But she asks that she be excused due to naivety.  What about the victims?  If Christina had the capacity for a normal amount of shame, she would commit herself to trying to undo the damage she has caused.  Here are some concrete things she could do.  How about her own podcast on FDR disavowing their outrageous family belief.  Apologizing.  How about persuading her deeply deranged husband to get over his beliefs and do the same sort of podcast.  How about reaching out to all those who have deFoo'ed and counsel them to  seek out their parents, family and friends.  To seek out reconciliation.  If Christina did that, perhaps she would find redemption in her own heart.  If she did that, I would be inclined to forgive her as well.  

Thursday, June 21, 2012

A Suicide Caused by Stefan Molyneux and Christina Papadopoulos and FreeDomainRadio

I use the pseudonym Edmund Burke because he is credited with the saying: All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.  I am posting here a profoundly sad story from a stricken parent.  I have spoken directly to the father and have independently verified the facts. This post is true.  

Here is a father's story:    

            I am a father of one fewer children than I had before.  My son was stolen from me by wolves in sheep’s clothing—wolves named Stefan Molyneux and Christina Papadopoulos.  Together these two and their destructive worldview  warped my son’s heart and stole everything he held dear, until he found himself isolated and hopeless.  My son killed himself as a result of their destructive influence on his life.
            We’ll call my son Sam.  Sam was in his young adulthood, only three years into life on his own, with his own job, own car, an apartment with a buddy, and enjoying life.  His childhood was idyllic—safe environment, loving family, raised in Christian love yet given freedom to think for himself, and not abused in any way.  After graduation he joined the Army—a childhood dream of his—and was living in the south.  While away he maintained strong ties with family and many friends in several states.  He kept in contact with them regularly and even visited numerous times despite being half a continent away.  He even drove across the country for his mom’s birthday!
            Within a two month period, that all changed.  He went from, “I’ll be praying for you” or “I can’t wait to see what God has in store for me”, to “I have no faith” and a total excommunication of Christian family and friends.  He even shunned and quit communicating with his three siblings, whom he loved dearly.
            Many of us tried to find out what was going on in Sam’s life.  The one thing he mentioned was studying the teachings of Stefan Molyneux, Christina Papadopoulos and their blog minions at FreeDomainRadio.  While this organization has some appealing features and draws people in with their fresh and exciting podcasts and blogs on politics and philosophy, under the surface is a worldview that is destructive to those who become immersed.  Sam was swept up by it.
            The worldview preached by the Molyneux cult is a combination of extreme libertarian politics, atheistic religion, and a warped psychology that believes parents are the root cause of all a person’s problems.  In their view, there is no such thing as a good parent.  They clearly counseled Sam to distance himself early from parents and Christians.  It initially started with a lack of the usual responsive communication, then to “de-friending” on Facebook, to “leave me alone,” and finally to a scathing “goodbye-forever” letter, all within the period of a few months.  The letter is too painful to quote from, filled with crazy jargon and phrases, evidence of brainwashing by the Molyneux wolves.
            We saw that coming.  We did our research on the Molyneux cult and learned of other families that had been ripped apart by the infamous “DeFOO”—Departing the Family Of Origin.  That’s exactly what Sam did to us, and then some.  He completely burned his family and Christian friend bridges.  Not only didn’t it solve his problems but rather contributed to his self-destruction.
            There is much written elsewhere about the religion of atheism versus following Jesus Christ or any other deity.  It might seem an oxymoron, but atheism is actually a religion too—that of the self being the only high authority in life, a sort of self-worship.  As one gets to know oneself more, however, he comes to the realization that focus on self is a short, dead-end trail that leaves one utterly disappointed.  I believe Sam reached the end of that trail, and in his mind he had no family and support structure to turn back to, even though we would have welcomed him home with open arms and a party of the grandest designs.
            After finishing his service to the Army—less than six months after the DeFOO--Sam set off on his own to find a new career, new home, a new identity as a free man.  Only seven days into his journey he found himself sitting alone in the car he lived in, with no one to turn to who could see the root cause of his suffering and offer him help, and no hope in his heart for redemption by a loving and forgiving God.  Sam shot himself in the head and died instantly.
            We all hurt for Sam, for ourselves, and for those who also miss him.  It was painful enough to lose him as a result of DeFOO, but we thought there would come a day when he would come back to us.  There was always hope of his return.  Now Sam has been ripped away forever, and the wound is deeper than before.  We will never on this earth have a chance to tell him again how much we love him, grow closer as he matures, or play with the children he never had.   
Chalk one up to Molyneux and Papadopoulos, The Destroyers.  May it never happen again.

A few final thoughts from Edmund.  
It was and continues to be inevitable that the evil perpetuated by  Stephan Molyneux and his wife Christina Papadopoulos is lethal.  I have observed that when a defoo succeeds (success is defined as anyone who defoo's and then becomes a reliable donor to the FDR cult), it is extolled as a triumph of Moly's will.  But when a defoo goes bad (as it always does), it is never because the victim bought into the Moly's destructive anti-family asininity.  Molyneux followers will contend that the decision to defoo has nothing to do with the efforts of Moly and his expert therapist wife with her Bachelor's degree.  It is always something else.  
But isn't it possible that the victims took the advice of Molyneux and isolated themselves from their family and friends because Moly and his followers work hard to persuade people to do exactly that?  Isn't it possible that when the defoo victim becomes sad and depressed; when the interminable suffering and sadness comes to be; when the inevitable does finally occur and a good man dies, that a contributing factor was an involvement with FDR?  I think the FDR community makes no effort to consider this as even a possibility.  They defend Moly with rationalizations and all the standard FDR sanctioned bromides.  "It was the parent's fault after all."  Or " you can't blame Moly for something like this."  For those who feel this way, I continue to beg you to find the truth in your heart and in your mind.