I received an interesting post from a disciple of Molyneux. Here it is:
"I accept Stefan Molyneux's underlying philosophy, Universal Preferable Behavior, which has nothing to do with families. However, one of the consequences of that philosophy is that the initiation of force or threat thereof is immoral. From that follows Molyneux's definition of abuse that you find so abhorrent.
You should start at the beginning, rather than the end."
I see three things in this post.
The First is that UPB – Universally Preferred Behaviors is an authoritative Philosophy. It is not. UPB is a disconnected, poorly framed series of bad analogies, and shoddy thinking. If anyone cares to dig into the flaws and failures of UPB, you can visit here to see that UPB really isn’t much.
http:///
The second is that Use of initiation of force or its threat thereof is immoral: Moly really believes Pacifism is an absolute. It is a zero tolerance condition. There is to be no violence…ever…..for any reason. This is so ingrained into the FDR frontal lobe that they mix threats and real force together as if they are the same thing. For example, any (I mean any) law of the state as an act of violence. Any firm form of discipline by a parent (including a firm word of rebuke) is violence. In this respect and many others, FDR is much more like a religion than a philosophy. Think Quakers. UPB puts forth a set of behaviors and insists that the followers believe. They say it is a conscious decision to believe and it is. But so is the conscious decision to be a Catholic. Also like Religion, UPB has a set of circular reasoning so any argument about its validity can be rebuked with its own self sustaining logic. It is really very much like Religious dogma.
Moly goes back and forth on self defense (and the defense of property), as a rationale for violence. But in the end, it is a problem for him. He has to maintain complete intolerance of violence to hold his position of moral superiority. I remember listening to one of Moly’s early podcasts. He twisted himself into a pretzel trying to prove that the self defense does not justify violence. He made one argument after another. He came up with analogy, after example, after anecdote. Each one was more strained and incoherent than the last. Of course he couldn't make the case. Anyone can think of countless examples when force and the threat of force is the exact correct and moral choice. Did anyone see the sickening bus video of a kid being brutally beaten. Can you think of a moral use of force? Of course you can. We look to philosophy and values that help us determine when violence is allowable and when it is immoral. What are its limits? Etc. Mindlessly calling for pacifism in all cases is an abrogation of philosophy.
Let’s simplify this with another example or two. A toddler is reaching for a $10,000 Ming vase in a store. He is going to knock it over. Mom notices just in time. She firmly says, “NO!” as she slaps the child’s hand and prevents the damage. The bank account is saved. And the child got a solid memory impression that knocking things off shelves is a bad idea. In Moly’s world of NON-Philosophy, this is an act of abuse that the child can look to and remember as the prima facie evidence of the corruption and abuse they received while growing up in that terrible home. Sometime later, the child reaches for a product on a shelf and the mother sternly says, “NO!” The child stops. No slap involved. hmmm Some would think the child is learning self discipline and beginning to figure out the boundaries of acceptable behavior. Not Moly. Moly says that the mother is threatening violence. Another example of an immoral and abusive parent. And on it goes. In one pod cast, a teenage girl was talking to him about how she felt so helpless when her mother would “not listen to her.” She would go to her room and cry in frustration. Moly could barely contain his glee. He helped the caller to understand that her mother was committing violence against her since the only logical end of an argument with a parent is violence. Therefore it is abuse. Then he goes on and says the mother did not really love her. How could she if she treated her like that. As stupid as this is, it is real and true for those who follow UPB and FDR.
I have another one. This is priceless. Did you know that faithful believers in FDR have no problem threatening the use of force? You can refer to my report on the Philadelphia Debate for the full story. When my brother approached my son to talk to him in the lobby. He was certainly did not represent any sort of physical threat to my son. Stil, a group of FDR Molypods collected around my son to prevent his Uncle from approaching him. This group was MOST CERTAINLY showing A THREAT of violence to my brother. Now in fairness, in their warped state of consciousness, they may have actually thought my brother was a physical threat. If so, I would argue they acted morally. They were protecting their friend. But that is my view of morality. Not Moly’s. (Ironically in Moly's sloppy description of UPB, they might be behaving with an end in mind and therefore they were behaving properly. Maybe I will go into this in another post someday).
Also on that day, a Molypod approached my friend who was handing out brochures and threatened him with being removed by security if he did not stop his activity. That is really rich. They are calling on the state to suppress an opposing view. It must have been unnerving that they couldn't just ban my friend's IP address from the FDR site. I wonder if banning those who dissagree with FDR dogma is an act of violence on their part?
The third item is a suggestion to start at the beginning. Let’s do that. Moly’s early writings are instructive. It is here, where he is unfiltered. He gives his true thinking and beliefs. Ever since the Philadelphia Debate, when Moly was directly and publicly challenged, he has retreated from his real beliefs. Moly has knuckled under to the pressure of being exposed for what he is. So here is the beginning. In his early days he said things like this in his essay, “Are People just Stupid.” He honestly seems to think he is the only source of real and beneficial parental practices and thinking. Here is an excerpt: The narcissism is staggering. He seems to contend that all (maybe except for himself and Christine) parent’s don’t have a clue and he refers to John Locke as the last competent philosopher as the rationale? Cut me a break. Anyway, here is Moly in the beginning. He wrote this long before he was a father.
When raising children, parents have absolutely no idea what they’re doing. Why should children obey them? Because parents are right? Hell no – ask parents why they hold their beliefs, they don’t have a clue. How could they? The last competent philosopher was probably John Locke, over three hundred years ago. The general social stream of ideas is just muck and confusion, designed by evil people to baffle and paralyze any good souls that accidentally emerge from the sick swamps of modern thought.
Average parents can no more reinvent morality from scratch than they can build a Space Shuttle in their backyards. Still, they have to get their children to obey them – how do they do it?
Oh, the usual suspects. Guilt, shame, withdrawal, criticism, bribery, bullying, manipulation – the usual crap that has passed for parenting throughout history. Guilt, shame and bullying always rush to fill the void when logical morality loses favour, because children must be taught, and if no carrots are to be found, sticks will always just have to do.
So face it: your parents were bullies, or weak curriers of favour, or manipulative emotional infants themselves. You have no respect for them, for respect requires courage, and courage requires logical morality. You do not love them, since love demands virtue, and manipulating children into blind obedience is not at all virtuous. There are only a few possible responses to modern parents:
- Contempt
- Indifference
- Boredom
- Hatred
- Empty conformity
These are usually mixed into an over-stimulating frappe of conflicting emotions, leaving family gatherings fraught with tension, alienation, dissociation and emptiness.
For more information on Moly's early foundation, visit http:///
So to the person who made this post: From the beginning Moly has had a neurotically distorted view of abuse. When you say that UPB has nothing to do with the family, I am not so sure? The non-violence messaging of UPB is the beginning, middle and end of Moly’s method for persuading young people to leave and remain apart from their families. If you look to the beginning, it appears Moly's obsession with the idea that all parents are bad is the beginning of UPB. You may want to take a moment and get some perspective. A = A. Use your head and truly evaluate your beliefs. Try Objectivism. Try anything. Just give yourself a chance to see beyond FDR and UPB. If you look at your life and you only associate with other FDR members, this may be your first clue that something is amiss.
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