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Tuesday, September 6, 2011

A defoo story

My wife woke up screaming and then crying. I woke up terrified and asked what was wrong? Between her sobs she said, “Our son is lost. We have to try and save him!” After a while, she calmed. In a voice as sad as any you will ever hear she told me that she dreamed our son was on fire. He was screaming in pain and calling for her but he was behind bars and she couldn’t get to him. In another dream only a couple of days later, he was a toddler. He came to her bed with his blanket in his hands and woke her for a kiss. After that dream she woke up crying more softly. I have similar dreams. I know our son still loves his family. His mother, sister and I love him completely. My wife and I gladly made all the sacrifices and undoubtedly some mistakes that parents make. Both of our children were raised in a safe and loving environment. My son and I had a truly wonderful relationship. Not so today.

It has been almost three years ago that I suggested that my son might enjoy listening to the podcasts of Stefan Molyneux. We both believe in freedom and have spent long hours discussing philosophy and politics. I had listened to Molyneux’s earlier podcasts and enjoyed his reflections on Objectivism. My son started listening. Molyneux became impressed with my son's grasp of objectivism and its values. Molneux was curious about his parents. My son he had suggested to Molyneux that he should interview me. Molyneux thought that was a good idea. Molyneux wanted to interview me as an example of a great dad. I did the interview. I mention this only to confirm that even Molyneux knows that, my son thought I was a great father. Molyneux took care of that situation. About six months later, my son cut all ties with us. To use the Molyneux invented term, my son ‘defoo’ed.’

“FOO” is the Family of Origin. DeFOO means departing the FOO. A Defoo is different from the occasional, young adult ‘get me out of here’ break up. A defoo is a Molyneux invention that is based on an axiom and a perversion. The axiom: adult relationships, including relationships between adult family members, are voluntary. The Perversion: Molyneux is quoted in the Guardian newspaper:   "Deep down I do not believe that there are any really good parents out there - the same way that I do not believe there were any really good doctors in the 10th century."

With this belief system abandoning the family is a necessary step in achieving freedom. Molyneux is always on the lookout for reasons to defoo.

Before the dream, my wife and I worked through our profound sadness and agreed to leave our son to find his way. He is an adult. It is his call on how he leads his life. After her dream though, my wife had to try and reach out to him. She went to his place of work. He saw her coming and ran away. She waited. He texted the store owner writing, “I am petrified to come back into the store while she is there.” How can he be petrified???  He was writing about his mother.  His mother who nursed him when he was sick.  Held him always; stood up for him against bullies; went to his games and concerts; Attended every back to school night and every teachers conference.  She took care of his doctors visits, emergency room visits, play dates, clothes shopping, and dances.  She felt his joy in her heart and his hurt when he was sad. His mother was at his workplace to talk. She was doing what every real therapist recommends, to communicate. What sort of emotional disequilibrium would cause him to run and to be petrified? This is a thoroughly unhealthy response. It has us extremely worried. Something is terribly wrong.

This is a sad story, but it is NOT unusual. It is happening all over the world. Stefan Molyneux and his wife have a well crafted methodology for luring young adults away from their parents. It involves YouTube videos, speeches, social networking, etc. Mostly he wants you in the chat room. There, he has a crew of loyalists on the prowl for new web site visitors. They follow strict guidelines for engaging the new visitor. They embrace the new person. You will be invited to socialize with other members. At some point, someone will suggest you listen to the introductory podcast called, “But my parents were nice.” Then you listen into his Sunday show where Molyneux listens to the typical complaints of a young adult and gives them advice. The callers have lots of reasons for calling, but no matter the reason, Molyneux is always on the lookout for a way to drive the discussion to your rotten parents. He describes parents as if he knew them intimately. He will conjure up memories from his template of how all parents are. He will speak and probe until he comes across something that gets a rise. The caller is taken with his charm and charisma. You allow yourself to be taken along.

Most of us have parent complaints. I know I did at that age. What if YOU are the one on the podcast? The power differential is huge. You are nervous. Others are listening. Molyneux is in complete control. You don’t have the courage or desire to disagree, so you just go along. “Yes my parents were like that.” Then one day, with the support of your fellow members, you defoo. It is a requirement of the defoo that you completely sever all contact with your parents, giving them no chance to even discuss what’s wrong….EVER.

Why does Molyneux do it? Because once a prospect leaves their family (and friends), the loss is traumatic. There is a huge and sudden emotional vacuum in your life. It is a void that Molyneux is poised to fill.  The prospective donor, naturally gravitates to the new FDR support structure. There is an upside. Your parents won’t be judging you anymore (it is true, in the late teens and early twenties is when parents do most of our judging). You feel free. You might even grow comfortable in your new community. Of course, filling the void is a service for which Molyneux expects payment. Your monthly donations aren’t mandatory, but you will lose privileges and the approval of the leader if you don’t keep them up. (see the blog on Moly's donation problem). This is a classic cult like set up. But who cares what it is called? It is a tragedy by any name. It is a con of the most insidious and vile form that preys on young people by intentionally destroying their families.

While your new friends will respond to your chat room posting, they don’t love you. If you were in the hospital across the street from Molyneux's home, he wouldn't leave his driveway to visit you. No one really cares if you are in an accident or if you are alone on a holiday. It isn’t a real family. It is an escape from real life. It is a suspension of responsibility. For anyone who is tempted by the defoo message from Molyneux, don’t be fooled.  If you find yourself wanting to break from your family and friends, don't be a coward and don’t be cruel. Talk it out.  Your parents will be disappointed, but remember, they are also rooting for you to be independent. For my son, defooing included dropping out of college. I have let him know that he can stay away, but I will still pay for the rest of his education expenses. If he does not return to college then the support system exchange my son has completed has been very detrimental to him. It is of minor benefit to Molyneux who is making a living by breaking up families for fifty dollars each. Hard to get more corrupt than that. So please don’t encourage him. DO NOT donate to Molyneux. Eventually, he will thank you. It just can’t be healthy staying in the house and talking to yourself all day and night. His message, once sound and even inspiring, has become hideously twisted. He needs to get back to an honest means of income for his message of liberty and freedom to be heard. Withholding donations will be doing him a favor by helping him get back to his political and philosophy roots.

Most importantly, don’t let others lead you to do self-destructive things. If you feel anxiety or anger or any problems in your family, talk about it. Insist on it. Once your parents realize the seriousness, they are likely to listen deeply to all you have to say.

To our son. We long for the day when your fear subsides and you can come home.

37 comments:

  1. You are not alone. There are stories like this all over the world brought on by Molyneux. He is ill. Heartbreaking.

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  2. Do you know if anyone who has defooed has ever left the FDR cult and returned to their family? Our son defooed in Aug '09 and I'm looking for hope.

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  3. There are some former FDR members, but I am not familiar with specific examples. Maybe someone else has an idea. August is pretty recent. I imagine you are going through the worst of it. The anger/pain/sadness doesn't stop, but it does subside. Moly is losing it a little. Your son will begin to see things more clearly in time.

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  4. This sounds like what is happening to me. My child has been listening to Mr. Molyneux and seems to have begun to leave me. I find this information depressing, scary. Is there anything I can do?

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  5. feel free to send me a private email and I will respond. molyneuxrevealed at gmail.com

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  6. And why is it that I, a 20 year old male with an already shitty history with my parents, can listen to molyneaux for a couple years and neither 'defoo' or donate any money? My dad never talked to me about objectivism or any sort of philosophy. The most he ever did was throw pragmatism at me and call me a silly idealist. Still I have no intention of cutting off contact. My mother was depressed for my entire childhood, my brother and I were on the receiving end of her greif in less pleasant ways than kisses and hugs. We talk every day. So why are your children prone to leave you? People who join cults aren't full of happiness and self esteem.

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  7. This post could easily be a fabrication, but let’s pretend it is the truth. First of all, a defoo is rare in any event. That is why Moly and his wife engage in a broad based direct marketing effort via the web. They cast a wide net and hope to snag enough donators to scratch out a living. This post is taking issue with my hypothesis that Moly only ‘appeals’ to a certain kind of young adult that has been raised by loving and good parents. He offers an anecdotal story that he had crappy parents but hasn’t taken Moly’s advice to leave them and he doesn’t send money to FDR. The poster’s parents were inattentive and dismissive and he was not taught philosophy. In other words, he is providing an anecdotal example confirming that he does not fit the profile. He is also offering an anecdotal confirmation that if you don’t defoo, you don’t donate to FDR. However he does make a valid point that Moly can appeal to someone with his family background. But the appeal is only as a listener. If the post is true, I should be more specific with the hypothesis. To wit:

    Moly can generally appeal to a wide range of people. However, his primary objective is a family break up so he can get a new account in the form of a reliable donator. He only successfully closes the sale with intelligent passionate young adults who were brought up in an emotionally secure, loving and intellectually curious environment that supported learning and open minded debate.

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  8. Interesting. Have linked to this post here:

    http://catastrophist.wordpress.com/2010/07/21/laughing-facebook-hacker-quotes-stefan-molyneux-against-me/

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  9. Hey, I think I left you a fairly pro Molyneux message awhile ago, I have since examined him and reversed my stance. I am sorry that your relationship with your son was sacrificed because of him. He seems to ba$h anyone who offers any solution that doesn't include giving him money. I really started to see through him with attacks on Ron Paul. I first heard of him on the Alex Jones, and I thought he sounded sincere, but after, closer inspection I have become very skeptical of him. I don't fault him for taking donations, per se, but do think it is questionable how he tells people to ditch their families.

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  10. I'm defooing soon and I'm glad. I can imagine my mom going on a site like this and saying, "Molyneux hypnotized my child as well...he won't even discuss the matter with me. He just left without saying anything!" but that's because I'm confident.

    So confident in my decision to separate that nothing needs to be discussed. The stories on this site are only one side. I'd be interested in hearing what your sons/daughters have to say about their relationship with you.

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  11. Thank you for visiting the site. In this blog, I argue that Molyneux is willfully misleading, when he says he promotes therapy and open communications before anyone should defoo. I contend that he only offers that up for public consumption. But when the time comes, (as it is here for you), he promotes the thinking you offer in your comment (i.e. Why bother? You know how it will turn out if you communicate with your parents, Just do it and be free.). If you end up going forward with the defoo without engaging your mother in a serious and committed way, you will be helping to prove my point. On the other hand, if you truly engage and let your mother know that you are looking to break forever if the issues you have are not addressed, then you will prove me wrong.

    You have nothing to lose by engaging your mother for dialogue and therapy (as Molyneux recommends). If that does not work, you have acted with integrity and courage. And while I think a defoo is too extreme, you will be on a stronger moral and emotional footing to make that decision to break. It is critical to keep this in mind. Your mother is not remotely equipped to understand this without your help. The idea of you breaking forever is not even imaginable to her. Make sure you commit to making her understand that a full break is very possible, even likely. If that and therapy does not work, the confidence you feel will be justified.

    As to my relationship with my kids, you can read the post you are responding to "A Defoo Story" to know how great my relationship was with my son before he engaged with Molyneux. Perhaps my daughter will get around to offering her own comments in response to you along the way.

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  12. I found this sight while I was in the middle of trying to find a way to get FDR on my Android phone. I heard him on a talk show the other day, found him to be funny and interesting, and I wanted to hear more. After reading this.. I'll stay away thankyouverymuch. Philosophy is great, but I cannot allow myself to be sucked into a show that promotes treating one's family like a used piece of garbage. I'm sorry that your family is going through this, and I hope that one day your son will be back. Yes. I have differences with my parents, some pretty deep differences, but I love them and am willing to put the differences aside when I visit and call them. If my daughter is philosophically 100% different from me when she grows up, I hope that she makes the same attempt to enjoy spending time with her father and I.

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  13. wow who is this molyneux guy? im sorry to say i thought he was a good person. i got into this website because i saw one of his youtube videos and i got curious. i have more time watching videos online now that i am working online selling import and export goods. i really hope ur son comes to his senses.

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  14. My son "defooed" us Aug. 2010.
    Now he's moved to New Hampshire apparently participating in the "Free State Project".
    Molyneux is and evil, evil man.

    Grieving, still Loving Mom

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  15. I think you're misunderstanding the point of defooing. It does not mean you have to cut off from your family. It means you should have voluntary relationships and not feel obligated to be with someone just because they are family. Relationships should be a two way street and not contingent on manipulation. I have never heard Molyneux encourage anyone to leave a relationship that brings joy or pleasure. Defooing for me allowed my wife and I to set boundaries with our parents. We decided we were not going to let our families wreck our peace. This actually led to an improved relationship with our families, because the relationship has to be sustained by mutual pleasure and interests, not obligation and guilt.

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  16. In my mind the commenter who interprets a defoo does not mean cutting off relationships, does not realise what a full 'defoo' constitutes. For the benefit of that person this is what has happened in our situation.
    All family, aunts, uncles, grandparents and cousins have been cut off.
    Even worse all siblings have been cut off.
    Parents cut off.
    In as far as we can tell all friends and acquaintances have been cut off.
    We only recieved one tiny hand written note to inform us of the decision to leave with no proper explanation.
    We know that donataions were made to Molyneux.
    We know some of the podcasts that were listened to.
    We know some of the dreadful comments that were made by Molyneux and other members of the site.
    We know that there were no serious probelms in our relationship until fdr entered our lives.
    We know that certain beliefs and career choices were altered after contact with fdr.
    I trust this offers some clarification.

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  17. If you think that a defoo (which is an acronym for DEparting yor Family of Origin), is about dealing with family problems in an honest and healthy way, then you have come up with an innovative interpretation of the term. Having said that, if your interpretation resulted in you dealing with your parents in a way that lead to a better relationship, I am happy for you. You might try to promote your interpretation in the FDR chat room as a test of which of us has it right. Let us know what happens.

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  18. "You might try to promote your interpretation in the FDR chat room as a test of which of us has it right. Let us know what happens."

    I'd love to hear that works out too.

    Great site btw, I've been following Moly for some time, loved his piece on the failed state, was very captivating. My first red flag was his piece on metal health, it was very disturbing.

    For a guy who slammed the Zeitgeist cult for never having "experts" on either side of a debate, this guy pulled a very controversial one sided piece, and then did again recently with a writer, another person completely unqualified to discuss mental health issues.

    He recently started posting his call in shows onto youtube, which I never really downloaded/listended previously from his site. After catching a number of his call in shows, I was horrified to hear such an unqualified person give such damaging advice to impressionable young people, while aslo discussing their donations.

    I can't believe how quick he is to break up a family, he has really creeped me out.

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    1. Hi GTheMVP
      If you really want to see how depraved Molyneux can be pop across to QuestEon's site FDR Liberated. There are some really damning articles, especially the 'Splitting Question'
      His disgusting speech or lecture if you prefer to a mere 17 year old young woman is quite appalling in my opinion.

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    2. Why can't I find this "But my parents were nice" video anywhere? Nor can I find a podcast on YouTube where he directly discusses the issue. Was everything pulled out because of the backlash, or those videos were only for the "initiated"?

      I am very shocked to find out that even a Libertarian parent got defood. Usually the defooer's excuse is "I can't talk to those people to talk because we are so different"... That a parent who actually started his kid on Molyneux can still be a victim is utterly creepy.

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    3. The discipline charges against the wife did cause a big clean out of the site. That has to be a good thing. My son and I had endless discussions on objectivist and libertarian philsosphy. Once he got to college, he came to be better read than me and was filling me in. I specifically remember him telling me about Murray Rothbard. Yes I know, I should have known of Rothbard. Sorry.
      When Moly was interviewing me by phone, my son walked into the room. He had a smile a mile wide. His two biggest heros were talking together. I commented about this to Moly and chuckled. Moly didn't. Little did I know that Moly was doing his due dilligence so he could use what I told him against me. He got me good. About six months later, my son defoo'ed. You really can't believe it could happen to anyone until it happens to you. And then you still can't believe it. Creepy is not a bad word to describe the whole FDR, Molyneux thing.

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    4. Edmund, I guess I can only say that the first time I heard of the concept, I was horrified. You have to hope that in raising your child, you have instilled familial bonds and values to the point that they won't be tempted by satanic doctrine.

      Did Objectivism value family bonds as much as say, Christianity? Perhaps there is some insight there, as to why your son left.

      Lastly, having multiple children could help prevent such as this. I had a twin brother that disappeared for a while, not connected to Molyneaux. We found him, shamed him, and (not physically) dragged his ass back. He came to his senses. He is in prison now though...(for old crimes, they have a way of coming back). But he is a better person today with true understanding.

      Note I am not criticizing, as I know nothing of your family situation. But your complaints echo my father's when he complains of his often-gone mentally imbalanced son (my elder brother), who blames college in the Ivy League for brainwashing him. Those classes certainly do brainwash, but I went through a similar college experience and yet resisted the propaganda every step of the way. My father refused to look at his two divorces and his son's terrible childhood during ex-spousal infighting as a cause for his problems.

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  19. My heart goes out to you, dude, that is all I can say. Your story made a deep impression on me, and I will be thinking about it for some time.

    By the way, I DID find the audios of the defoo podcasts (a reader of yours gave the tip in a comment to another post). I didn't have the patience to hear them entirely (not being a libertarian myself, I find Moly boring, no disrespect to libertarians intended) but I did notice something very interesting. He begins the podcast trashing people who "partly agree" with him, and says they are just doing it as a defense and out of fear (that's BEFORE the subject of family comes up). In his relaxed mode, he is actually saying he is angry and disapproving at those half-hearted fans. In the most friendly tone of voice he is telling the listeners to think like him in every single point! Or else they are suppressing their "true self", yadda yadda. "Suppressing their true self"... the echoes of L. Ron Hubbard and Gurdjieff abound. I am sure he studied those mad gurus - the fantasy is too similar to be a coincidence.

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  20. Let me take advantage of your allowing anonymity and say more. This dafooing thing is very horrifying to me because I know that embittered sons and daughters do that in that age, guru or no guru. My parents had a bitter divorce when I was 18 and my sister 17 (Moly's favourite target age). My sister was so indoctrinated by my mother that she shut down for years all contact with my father, who had quickly remarried and had other kids. I was seen by my mom and sister as the one who "side with my father" because I wanted to maintain a relationship with everybody, even though my mom was always threatening to shun me (things got worse when I married - she got terribly jealous of my wife).

    Somehow, for some crazy reason I was asked to "choose" either mom or dad. I tried to explain to my sister she didnt have to pick one, to no avail, until she changed her mind on her own and eventually reconciled with my dad, and I am always giving my mom the opportunity to come back and just have a normal relationship with us, without clinging to the past with bitterness.

    So my family history is one of fighting dafoo. Not letting my sister do it, not giving my mom the excuse to do it to me. It was all very painful, because my mom treats my wife horribly, and has only seen her granddaughter once. But lets have perspective: who is suffering more? My mother hurt me emotionally, but he is my mother, for God's sake, and I know that she is the one who has more pain. My father got rather unavailable with his new family, but who should get more attention, the son in his 20s or the two small children? Aren't his two sons from a new wife my brothers? We don't see each other often, but I spent some time with him and his new family recently, and enjoyed a lot.

    Bottomline is, can't we all just get along? Stop this dafooing thing? Try to find some good in everyone? Forgive, as we would like to be forgiven? If I say that family, like all human affairs, is a messy thing - is that wishfulthing, or plain realism?

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  21. I have written quite a few times in the course of this blog that there are a lot of circumstances where young adults and parents reach states where there is a break. it is an unfortunate aspect of humanity. There is enormous tension at this stage. Parents want to protect their children but they know they have a duty to 'release' their kids to the world. The young adult wants the freedom but has apprehension about their future and loss of security. These dynamincs are volatile enough. In your case, the divorce makes it so much worse. In the course of time, family usually finds their way through the troubles and tumult. You are trying hard to navigate those waters in your family. For that, you have my admiration. You are doing the right thing. Keep at it gently and persistently.
    Of course, Moly and Christina are constantly on the lookout for the chance to encourage family unrest. They want to retard any chance for a family to heal. They have the perfect solution. Break forever and be done with it. Find your true self. Be free. And be sure to make the monthly contribution.

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  22. I'm in therapy and it raised a lot of issues. I decided that while I was going through therapy I needed some time out from my parents and told them I would not be talking to them for 90 days and would call them every month just to check in. My mother doesn't get it. I called her after 30 days and she attacked me, told me I had changed, I had been brainwashed by religion, I had trashed my family. I came away from the call misunderstood and diminished. My father was more understanding, he said he just wanted my happiness and would hope we would one day have a relationship. I left the call feeling like he treated me like an adult. If my parents where to show up at my home or place of work after making this decision I too would fe terrified. Why? Because they blatantly disrespected my decision. I would ask, "What do they want from me, my soul?" I agree that its tempting to replace one brain washing with another, that of Molyneux, religion or a relationship with that of your parents. It doesn't take away the fact that at some point in your life, I think its important to individuate. Parents do not realise how important an influence they have on their kids. Since I stopped talking to my parents, yes I feel cruel, but man do I feel free. I am making decisions I never thought would be possible. I studied a degree at uni to please my parents, almost flunked out and resented them. Now I am in a job I have grown to like but am considering going back to Uni to do an MA in something I feel truly passionate about. If I was still doign daily or 2x weekly calls with my mother, I would mention this to her and she would opine on it and influence me. And it would piss me off because I wouldn't know if I was then doing it/not doing it to rebel or to comply. Once you have individuated and it can take months or years (my therapist took 10 years and now he loves his mother and she means the world to him) you can reengage with proper boundaries. I know what my parents are going through is painful, I also know they are not responsible for my feelings and neither am I for theirs. We all have the right to main our own choices. We all have the right to freedom. I hope one day to have a relationship with my parents based on respect and boundaries. I think this may be possible with my father. I am not sure about my mother because she prefers to see me as a toddler right now than as an indepedent 35 year old. And to the extent engaging with her causes me a desire to revert back into that role or pain because I can only react like a robot with rigid boundaries because of my perception of her lack of respect for me then its better not to engage. In 30 days I will send them a postcard, not call, because honestly I don't feel good about someone, anyone, be it Moly or my parents trying to tell me to be someone I am not.

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  23. Do please see my comment just above yours here. It seems you are working through your issues in your own way. At 35, you are past the age of young adult individuation. This is where Moly does his damage. You have enough life experience to see through his shtick and realize he is doing the same thing an over reaching parent does. You also point out quite well, that parent/child relationships do go on. Thank you for visiting. Here's hoping you and your parents find your way to a lasting relationship that works for both of you.

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  24. A little over 4 years ago I was living this tragedy, My son had defooed it took us almost a year to realize what happened. Thankfully thru the internet we were able to know he was alive and maybe what city he was in. Last /summer we had a private investigator locate him and deliver a letter only to have are hopes crushed, when he didn't contact us. The last month an email "can I come home?" after are yes answer another 3 weeks with no contact. Then a phone call, we arranged a plain ticket and he was home the next day. He did say he was sorry . We haven't dwelt on it, he has admitted his mistake. He Realized Stepf was a fraud. We have a loving son back, I pray soon you will too.

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  25. Unfortunately, I have lost both of my children to this...one brought the other in to this wave of destruction. They are both depressed and confused and there is a definite feeling of isolation. I'm very concerned for their emotional well-being and I'm completely distraught. I can only hope that they both come back eventually.

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  26. We are just going through this ourselves. Our son moved to another country and changed his e-mail and phone number. I think that if we tried to find him that he would refuse to see us. I would appreciate any suggestions.

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  27. My son was the sweetest, funniest, most lovable person just months ago. He used to tell me that he loved me very often and told me how much he appreciated what I have done for him. He moved to Colorado and has undergone the worst transformation. I know that I have been a wonderful mother, not perfect, of course but extremely giving and caring. He deFooed his sister, my sweet fiance and me a month ago and now is completely isolated and angry and cruel. Molyneux convinced him that I abandoned him as a child by going to work.
    His roommate is going to have him removed because he is being violent and verbally abusive. The defooing has been traumatic to all, but mostly to him. I feel like I can't undo the horrible damage that Molyneux has inflicted. Could someone give me hope that my sweet son will see the light instead of the black hole of hate that Molyneux expects his followers to embrace.?

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  28. Our son listens to this man. I have listened to his tapes, You tubes. He is clearly a narcissist, a cult leader and very evil and misguided. He no more cares about the young men mainly that he is wooing in and defooing than a stranger. He wants their money. He is a bully.He comes across smooth and charming and confident. He has a distorted past and so does his wife. These two are the epidomy of CULT LEADERS. I pray for each and every parent who is going through this brainwashing this evil man does. He divides families and encourages broken relationships. Stephan is a fraud and a lier. He hates good and promotes evil. He is a hypocrite- he is all for freedom, free will and as soon as he finds someone is a Christian , he rips them apart with hatred. Wow- what happened to the smooth and charming charismatic Stephan? Prayers to all who are dealing with this evil cult leader and praying your sons come back home. DM

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  29. Stefan has many of the traits of a psychopath. And reading through your article, it seems like you notice many of these traits but never call him out for what he is, a psychopath.

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  30. Wow! This is unsettling! I hardly ever watch Molyneux's hour+ call-in videos. But when I have, found it confusing how he would have such *long*
    bizaar conversations with young men who were so obviously ill equipped to converse or even contribute. I think, "how can he suffer fools like this, how generous" But then take note of how roughly he is treating them. Then seemingly completely out of contexts asks them about their upbringing.

    Through this 'defoo for profit' perspective many of those "conversations" take a disturbing but better framed understanding.

    Reading all of what's here has been making me very uneasy about all the Molyneux posts/videos i've shared over about the past year.

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  31. Wow! This is unsettling! I hardly ever watch Molyneux's hour+ call-in videos. But when I have, found it confusing how he would have such *long*
    bizaar conversations with young men who were so obviously ill equipped to converse or even contribute. I think, "how can he suffer fools like this, how generous" But then take note of how roughly he is treating them. Then seemingly completely out of contexts asks them about their upbringing.

    Through this 'defoo for profit' perspective many of those "conversations" take a disturbing but better framed understanding.

    Reading all of what's here has been making me very uneasy about all the Molyneux posts/videos i've shared over about the past year.

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