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Thursday, April 7, 2011

Defoo quotes from Molyneux

I keep getting posts from Molyneux true believers who all say the same thing.  "I never heard him suggest a defoo."  Well all you have to do is listen more.  I used to skip over his nutty family rants when I listened to him.  So maybe these posters are doing the same thing.  The point here is that there are plenty of examples.  I provide a few documented items below.  Remember, that in the FDR world, abuse include almost any and all parental slights perceived or real.  At FDR, it is a process.  Molyneux and his Wife Christina actively try to get young adults to adopt their definition of abuse and then declare their parents as abusive.  Once that is done, they push for a defoo (depart their family of origin).  After the defoo, Moly wants these people to become reliable donors to FDR.  This argument seems quite implausible.  Until it happened to our family, I would have agreed.  Moly and his wife are not particularly successful at this undertaking, but they do occasionally reel in a victim.  As a result, a lot of families that would be working through the routine issues that any family has to deal with are instead sad and broken.   This argument can never be conclusively proven, but there is some pretty compelling evidence so support it.   Here are a few examples:
I believe the most revealing comment that Stefan Molyneux ever uttered was in one of his 'how to defoo podcasts.'  It was in: FDR348: Escaping Your Family Step By Step - Part 2  (20:00 Stef gives example of his defoo talk with his family 35:00 describes the letter about taking a break from the family.  Then in the course of offering up his recipe for for a defoo, he offers this bit of moral direction: 
44:40 “Please send me a donation... it will make it a lot easier for you to confront your parents if you're acting with good integrity in your life in general

Here are few more direct quotes from Molyneux (either written or transcribed from a podcast)
The DEFOO. In podcasts outlining the step by step process for leaving your family:
FDR347: Escaping Your Family Step By Step - Part 1 (10 minutes in until end - refers to people close to breaking with families)
FDR350: Escaping Your Family Step By Step - Part 3
(How to deal with objections from family, all you need is a couple of months away, describes techniques of "fogging" or "broken record")
31:00 “Do it at their house so that you can leave.”
In a chat room where someone with a screen name of S****y was discussing some seemingly serious issues.  There was a mention of suicide and throwing away his medication so he would not be tempted to deliberately overdose.  If ever there was a 'go to a therapist moment' it was this one.  Here was Moly's one and only post on this chat stream:
"S****y, get off the god damned fence and get rid of your family."
Here is th URL link to this if you want to get the context:
And of course the original:

Caller: "Sometimes my dad shouted at our cat Fluffy when he was angry."

Molyneux: "I'm so sorry you had to experience this. What a monstrous, foul beast from the depths of hell. Your childhood must have been devastating. Tell me, did he ever shout at the cat in public?"
Caller: "Uh, no."

Molyneux: "I knew it! That proves he is not insane! He truly is a hateful, satanic demon who commits these unspeakable acts on purpose. I'm not telling you to defoo, but you'd be a complete loser if you didn't."
I suspect at some point in time, Moly was doing FDR for the glory of philosophy.  I just don't think that is the case anymore.  These days it is much more about a business that depends on the donations of young adults who have broken with their families.  Moly uses his web site to scout out routine family conflicts that occur during that period of time when the young adult wants to break away but is not quite there yet and the parent who is encouraging their kid to leave the nest but is fighting off their instinct to 'hold on and protect' their child.  A defoo creates a huge emotional vacuum for the victim.  Molyneux and the FDR community becomes the new source of emotional support.   Moly then closes the deal by connecting the defoo victim's new loss of their family and their newly found enlightened freedom to a 'moral' requirement to make a monthly donation to FDR.  This may seem like a weird way to make a living, but it isn't all that rare.  The general cult business model has been in place for thousands of years.  You can judge for yourself if this is a virtuous way to make a living.


  1. It would have been nice if you had the original MP3's of at least one of those three podcasts to make your evidence a bit more tangible. At this point its just speculation. Now we're dealing with "IF those podcasts existed" rather than "those podcasts DO exist" (your word against theirs). I hope I'm making sense here. I'm not accusing anyone of lying here, but you really should start saving stuff if you want to do more damage. Screenshots, podcasts, videos and the like.

    And if only the links to those podcasts were pulled, then the actual mp3's might still be floating somewhere out there on the internet.

    I can't say much on the subject of Moly requesting donations. He's got mouths to feed.

    The bottom line is that everyone has an agenda. That's why it's never wise to fully subscribe anyone's ideologies except for those that you have developed through personal life experience. Unfortunately they don't teach kids this in school. And that's how they get sucked in. :(

    Anyways I'm starting to ramble. Save stuff next time. It gives you more credibility. Good luck!

  2. I appreciate the comment. The whole 'mouths to feed' argument is a good one. On the MP3 proof, it does exist on servers off site from FDR, but I am not inclined to pursue for a couple of reasons. First, I don't think Moly will refute the comments. Second, even if he does, it is enough that I have offered the counter point for anyone to consider as they make their own judgements on Moly. I just want to allow a thoughtful person like yourself to be warned. That mission is already accomplished. Thought of a third reason. I have a life. And I am not good with audio editing. It would take too many hours to dig out the podcasts, dissect them and convert to MP3 snippets.

  3. To Edmund...

    Just a small correction. The podcasts you refer to ARE still available on-line. The reference numbers (347, 348, and 350) still remain, but they have been retitled "Breaking with Corruption--Step by Step." I just now (3/4/2011) clicked on one to listen and another to download. Both worked fine.

    During the time Molyneux spent as an (unsuccessful) novelist, he clearly grasped the importance of a catchy title. He gives it a lot of thought and sometimes re-titles some podcasts apparently to make them sound more intriguing.

    Therefore, it's not unusual to find a podcast whose title promises some lofty, definitive answer to something but the recording itself barely references the question or, worse, seems to be unfocused rambling about a specific event.

    To Anonymous...

    The good news is that the "evidence" you ask for is right there. But I have a challenge for you to consider.

    These three podcasts are very much as I described above--a little structure, a little rambling, a lot of Molyneux airing his grievances with his own family.

    It's tragic to consider the young people with family problems who listen to these recordings and expect to hear a definitive step-by-step plan for "escaping corruption," never realizing how Molyneux has leapfrogged over the PROBLEM to provide his one-size-fits-all solution. And perhaps they don't yet know that the man who recorded them so hates traditional families, he refers to them as "Accidental Biological Cages (ABC)."

    When anyone is troubled about his/her family and looks for a solution, there is a critically important, can't-be-overlooked first step. One must determine the cause of the dysfunction--is it simply growing pains, miscommunication, something else? All of that is skipped over at FDR in general and these podcasts in particular. Yet it takes skill and insight to determine the essential root cause(s), case-by-case. Sometimes they are complex enough that it requires the help of a trained professional counselor to truly understand the problem.

    Molyneux's solution is easy and universally applied to all families: "Oh no, your family is just corrupt. They're evil. You need to get away."

    The point I'm leading to is that you can look for evidence within the podcasts if you like but you needn't listen to one second of them to realize how dangerous they are--when you understand the above black-and-white view Molyneux has of families. If you are somewhere in the age range of 18 to 26 (I think that's about the target age range for FDR) and you are not completely happy with your family, Molyneux--who assumes the air of a professional despite a complete lack of training in family psychology--will tell you it is because they are evil. And that's no exaggeration of his views.

    When it comes to evidence, however, I have spent a lot of time specifically capturing the views he expresses in his podcasts, dissected and transcribed on my site. Certainly, if Mr. Molyneux (or anyone else) were to inform me that my transcriptions were in error, I would gladly change or remove the offending text. Over time, I've found that there is very little critical analysis I can provide of FDR's family psycholgy "theories" that is as damning as simply putting the views he expresses in those podcasts in plain view, word-for-word, for all to see. He believes you were badly raised. He believes nearly all parents are horribly bad. He believes there is no way for you to be an honorable person if you consort with corrupt people like your parents. All his words. All his views. I've never heard him deny them or repudiate them.

    Edmund is spot on.

  4. Thank you Questeon. I was not sure. Molyneux does stand by his words and beliefs. Once item on the 'mouths to feed' Reminder on this comment.
    44:40 “Please send me a donation... it will make it a lot easier for you to confront your parents if you're acting with good integrity in your life in general”

    I think this one comment best captures the essence of FDR.

  5. According to Molyneux, everyone is terrified of their parents and siblings (and parents are equivalent to war criminals)

  6. I just read the thread you linked to in this post... It seems the quote was taken slightly out of context, as Stefan had a legitimate reason to tell this person to get away from his parents.

    If you read the thread you'll see that the original poster was using his parents for monetary support while simultaneously blaming them for all of his problems and "contemplating" suicide while never really having the courage to do it. Childish thought patterns all around. He seemed like a kid who just needs to get out of the nest and experience life firsthand and take a few lumps so he can get a better grip on reality. Someone who needs to take responsibility for himself.

    So I agree with Stefan in this particular case. This kid needs to man up. Everyone needs to leave the household eventually. It's a huge world out there. The sooner they experience it the better.

    I agree that there is a negative side to the concept of the "deFOO". Unless your parents were legitimately abusive - and by "legitimately", I mean extreme physical and sexual abuse, not "my daddy hit me when I was six boo hoo" - I see no reason to completely cut off ties with them. However, I do think that eventually a kid has to leave the nest. Living with the same 2 people for too long will drive you crazy. Like I said, it's a big world out there. These kids need breathing room.

    Also, when these kids "deFOO", so to speak, and see the harsh realities of the material world, Moly's ideas won't matter so much. Because when you're hungry you don't think about the Federal Reserve or abusive parents or the state.

  7. If I may summarize your comment: Molyneux was giving out some 'tough love' to a person who needed a reality check on the harshness of the world out there and life ingeneral. In the FDR world, such tough love by a parent is considered a prima facie example of abuse. I am sympathetic to an occasional need for a kick in the butt, but keep something in mind. Moly does not know this person. It is in a public chat room. I do think it is a problem for Moly to be handing out such 'harsh reality /tough world' advice to a person who is putting forth suicide ideation. As to the full context, I think Molyneux wasn't trying to help. I think he was upset that the person was a raining on the FDR parade and he wanted to get rid of him.

  8. I have a nephew who defooed. One day my sweet, funny and much adored nephew sends an email to all of us telling saying he will no longer be friends on Facebook - but it is nothing personal. And he said talk to his parents if you need more info... so I ask his Dad what is going on and he said he had no idea - he received a generic little note saying he was taking a break. He did not even have the common courtesy to tell his parents why. I found out from his ex-girlfriend that he had become involved with Free Domain Radio and she sent me a link to the Globe and Mail Article about Molyneau. His connection with FDR is the reason why she left him. It did not take long to feel fully confident that FDR was the reason why - the nephew even used a direct quote in his note to his parents that Molyneau outlines on his website. The thing most puzzling to me is my nephew was close to 30 years old at the time of the break - not some young, impressionable kid still living at home and feeling rebellious - he had moved away from home years before. But he fell for the whole FDR parents are evil and abusive story - hook, line and sinker. And bless his little heart - he has Philosipher King status now, so you know he is making sure Moly can continue his family unit massacre on more poor souls in the future. And my nephew was never physically abused and tortured... he could probably count on one hand how many times he was spanked as a child. He was a really non stop active kid with a huge imagination - and honestly lost of people in my family thought he was really was not disciplined enough growing up and that his parents were too easy going. Honestly, I would like to take him over my knee now... but I digress. At 52 years old, I have come into the realization of how important my family and friend connections are to me - they give me life, they immerse me in a sense of love and belonging - that is how a rich, full life is supposed to feel. And for him I forsee a lonely, misguided existance with nothing but some cyber relationships, that he has to pay for, to keep him warm. How very sad for him.